What Stephen Colbert's exit means for the future of late-night

Transcript

Notice: Transcripts are machine and human generated and lightly edited for accuracy. They may contain errors.

Geoff Bennett: Tonight, the curtain closes on “The Late Show With Stephen Colbert” and on more than 30 years of late-night TV history.

Colbert has entertained and provoked from the historic Ed Sullivan Stage for the last decade in ways that transformed the comedic landscape. We take a look now at what led up to this inflection point and what it might mean for the future of late night, part of our arts and culture series, Canvas.

Stephen Colbert: Welcome to “The Late Show,” everybody. I’m your host, Stephen Colbert.

Geoff Bennett: After 11 seasons, “The Late Show With Stephen Colbert” will go dark tonight. Long the top-rated late-night talk show, Colbert interviewed politicians.

Hello, Mr. Obamer? Am I pronouncing that correctly?

Former President Barack Obama: Close enough.

Geoff Bennett: Comedians.

Stephen Colbert: I didn’t know there were any mongoose in Peru.

Will Ferrell: No, there’s just one, this one.

(Laughter)

Geoff Bennett: And musicians.

Stephen Colbert: What?

Nicki Minaj, Musician: Are you married?

(Laughter)

Stephen Colbert: Why? Why? Yes, yes, I am. Yes, I am. I’m married.

Nicki Mina: Oh.

Geoff Bennett: His wife, Evie McGee Colbert, was a regular.

Evie McGee Colbert: On our first date, I said, “You play any sports?” And he said, “I play hacky sack.”

(Laughter)

Geoff Bennett: Colbert took over the show from David Letterman in 2015 after a decade hosting the Comedy Central news satire “The Colbert Report,” which was a spin-off of “The Daily Show.” His old friend Jon Stewart was among his final guests.

Jon Stewart: Oh, are you going to enjoy watching “Matlock” in this mother (expletive deleted)?

(Laughter)

Geoff Bennett: CBS announced “The Late Show”‘s cancellation last July, insisting it was a purely financial decision. The program was reportedly losing millions of dollars each year, but many believed politics was at play.

Stephen Colbert: Welcome to Trump’s golden age, by which I mean it’s time to start melting down grandma’s gold.

(Laughter)

Geoff Bennett: Colbert’s regular roasts drew the ire of President Trump.

The president posting, “Stephen Colbert is a pathetic train wreck with no talent or anything else necessary for show business success.”

Many observers saw the cancellation as an effort to appease Mr. Trump at a time when CBS parent company Paramount was finalizing a merger that required government approval. Last fall, Colbert told Jimmy Kimmel he was surprised by the news, which he got from his manager, James “Baby Doll” Dixon.

Stephen Colbert: So I said: “Evie, I will be home a little bit later. I got to talk to Baby. He wants to talk for 15 minutes.”

And I come home 2.5 hours later. And she — I walk into the apartment and she goes: “What happened? Did you get canceled?”

Jimmy Kimmel: No?

Stephen Colbert: Yes.

Jimmy Kimmel: Really?

Stephen Colbert: I said: “Yes, I did.”

Geoff Bennett: Kimmel and fellow late-night hosts Seth Meyers, John Oliver and Jimmy Fallon, who co-hosted the “Strike Force Five” podcast with Colbert back in 2023, reunited on the show last week.

Stephen Colbert: What is my status? Do I become emeritus?

Seth Meyers: You’re just hard out. You’re just out.

Stephen Colbert: I’m just out.

Seth Meyers: Yes, it’s Strike Force Four. And it breaks our heart.

Stephen Colbert: Yes.

Seth Meyers: It’s like — but it’s like — it’s like gerrymandering. Like, nobody likes it, but, like, once the courts rule, it is what it is.

(Laughter)

Stephen Colbert: Yes. Has the court ruled on Strike Force Five?

(Crosstalk)

Jimmy Kimmel: Don’t worry, give me a few months, it’ll be Strike Force Three.

(Laughter)

Geoff Bennett: Kimmel’s late-night show was temporarily suspended last year under pressure from the Trump administration.

Jimmy Kimmel: “When is ABC fake news network firing seriously unfunny Jimmy Kimmel?”

Geoff Bennett: And, in April, the president and first lady called for Kimmel’s firing.

Jimmy Kimmel: Trump has three wars going on right now, Iranians, Ukrainians and comedians.

Geoff Bennett: Politics aside, the economics of late-night television are challenging. Viewership across networks is down, as is advertising revenue. CBS says it will air “Comics Unleashed” with Byron Allen in “The Late Show”‘s time slot.

I spoke with comedian and producer Larry Wilmore, who previously hosted “The Nightly Show With Larry Wilmore” on Comedy Central, about what this moment says about comedy, television, and the changing late-night landscape.

You have occupied a unique space in comedy, former late-night host, cultural critic, political observer. When you heard “The Late Show” was ending, what was your initial reaction?

(Laughter)

Larry Wilmore: I just didn’t know what to think really. Was it a network decision? Was there pressure from the president or whatever, which is very bizarre?

We have never had TV shows kind of be determined by the direct political intervention of the president. I think maybe the closest was “The Smothers Brothers,” which was canceled in 1968. They had a lot of pressure during that time.

Dick Smothers, Comedian: OK, what do you want to sing for us?

Tom Smothers, Comedian: Well, if I told you what it was, you would probably say it was controversial and you wouldn’t let me do it.

Larry Wilmore: I don’t think since then we have had a president directly comment on that situation. So I was very, very confused, wanted to do — look into it myself and see what really happened, but very surprised to him.

Geoff Bennett: Well, CBS is framing the end of “The Late Show” With Stephen Colbert” as a financial decision. Do you buy that argument?

Larry Wilmore: I mean, that’s what they say. I mean, the thing is they’re not wrong with those arguments. Just it can be far from right, though. Maybe it’s not the whole argument, because, of course, the show costs a lot. But a lot of times these places they will have shows on the cost a lot, but they will have some cultural significance for them.

So maybe if it’s not bringing that cultural significance, maybe they don’t want it around. But I can’t talk for CBS. I don’t know. All I can do is make things up and figure it out for my own. But it’s not like Lyndon Johnson was trying to get “The Beverly Hillbillies” off the air commenting on it.

Like, since when does the government have anything to do with these decisions? So there does seem something kind of sneaky going on with CBS kind of listening to other factors.

Geoff Bennett: How much pressure, though, exists now, either overtly or subtly, on comedians and networks when you have comedy that intersects directly with politics, as was the case for Stephen Colbert?

Larry Wilmore: Well, I think the Colbert thing is in its own category. But look at what happened with Kimmel. Kimmel’s like in a real back-and-forth with the president himself and now the first lady. I mean, Geoff, I have never seen anything like that. It’s very bizarre.

It almost makes his place more secure. Like, you almost want to see somebody up there throwing those grenades or whatever it is. But I kind of get what you’re saying. On the other hand, when you’re dealing with corporations like Disney or NBCUniversal or some of these things, who knows what their appetite is for that type of involvement, especially if they’re trying to get licenses renewed or trying to get these deals done, the corporate part of it?

So it’s in kind of a precarious place. But, ironically, I think the Kimmel situation, it kind of makes a case for him staying around longer.

Geoff Bennett: Late night once created shared national conversations. That was the case with Johnny Carson and Leno and Arsenio, Letterman. Are we losing sort of the last space where Americans laughed and — laughed together and processed things together simultaneously?

Larry Wilmore: I think so. I think it’s because of that reason. I think people see it as a divided place already. So a lot of people don’t even show up for it because they hear like they’re hearing the other person’s side of something. So why should I listen to that?

And now there are other places for that ideological divide. If you look at like what Greg Gutfeld is doing on FOX, a lot of people tune into his show for the type of comedy and the angle that they want to hear from.

Greg Gutfeld, FOX News Anchor: What is it with these Democrats and spies?

Larry Wilmore: I’m surprised there aren’t more shows like that, to be honest. I thought we would see more of that type of thing. But we’re kind of seeing it from comedians who are out there in the clubs, doing more specials like streaming. Streaming is doing more of an even-handed thing.

We’re putting on different types of comics, maybe from different cultural sides and that type of thing. It’s kind of interesting. So I think a lot of people, they’re looking to late-night shows for that so much as some of their niche comedy pockets that they’re kind of looking in for, who’s going to tell me the thing I want to hear about what’s going on in the world? That’s what it feels like to me.

Geoff Bennett: What do you think Stephen Colbert’s lasting contribution will be, not just to comedy, but to the culture?

Larry Wilmore: We’re lamenting the passing of Stephen’s show, which I’m a huge fan of Stephen. I thought he did a great job hosting his show.

But I think his legacy will be “The Colbert Report.”

Stephen Colbert: Anyone can read the news to you. I promise to feel the news at you.

(Laughter)

Larry Wilmore: That show still today seems like it was doing something against the grain in a way we had never seen before.

Geoff Bennett: Are we witnessing the end of late night?

Larry Wilmore: Maybe. I think so. Maybe. You know, who knows? Maybe we will go down to just one again. It would be interesting if Fallon is the one left out of all of this and his show just stays on. I mean, it could just go down to that, depending on what people want.

To me, I kind of get more excited about, what’s going to be next? You know, what’s going to be the next form? It’s probably more personal comedians, people that are doing humor that is strictly really from their point of view. And it could be about the world. It could be current events, but not necessarily topical, definitely about their family, definitely about their foibles and that type of thing.

To me, that’s how I see it kind of evolving.

Geoff Bennett: Larry Wilmore, always a pleasure to speak with you. Thanks for your time.

Larry Wilmore: Oh, pleasure’s all mine. Thanks, Geoff.