New era in chess: Levy Rozman discusses Gukesh Dommaraju becoming youngest world champion

Transcript

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John Yang: There’s a new chess world champion and he’s the youngest ever. 18-year-old Gukesh Dommaraju defeated defending title holder Ding Liren of China at the World Championship in Singapore. Dommaraju, who goes by Gukesh, has had a meteoric rise amid a surge in the game’s popularity India. This is what the chess based India’s broadcast looked like when Ding made a blunder that opened the door to Gukesh’s victory.

After the match, Gukesh talked about going bungee jumping. Levy Rozman is known online as GothamChess, which is the name of his YouTube and Twitch channels. He’s also the author of “How to Win at Chess, the Ultimate Guide for Beginners and Beyond.”

I want to ask you about what we just saw. The move that Ding made, it was instantly recognizable to viewers and commentators that this was a big blunder. First of all, what did he do? In the simplest terms, what did he do? And how can a player at that level make a move like that?

Levy Rozman, Author, “How to Win at Chess”: Yeah, I’m going to try to do my best here. I can summarize this as a — an interception in the Super bowl with 30 seconds remaining. That turns into a touchdown. That level of kind of turnaround for baseball fans, it’s a, you know, walk off grand slam, bottom of the ninth World Series. I’m a Yankee fan, so I’m still licking my wounds.

It was a shocking, shocking mistake. And the reason why it was so shocking is Ding had very few pieces remaining and he was down one pawn, which is the least you can have kind of a difference. And he liquidated the whole pieces, you know, the whole board, thinking that the game was going to end in a tie, in a draw. And it just wasn’t. And he didn’t have to do that. So it was a self-induced error on the biggest stage, at the biggest moment.

John Yang: Let’s talk about Gukesh. He was a grandmaster at 12. This past summer, he won gold at the Chess Olympiad. If you go to the World Chess Federation site, he’s ranked as both an adult and a junior. What’s the significance of him now being World Champion?

Levy Rozman: It’s massive. So for the last, let’s say, 10 or 15 years, chess has had several stars, but one superstar. Unlike, let’s say tennis, which has the big three with Novak Djokovic, Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal. We have Magnus Carlsen. Before Magnus, we had a few very strong top players, including Viswanathan Anand from India, who started this whole chess boom India. And before that, Kasparov. Garry Kasparov, who some of the folks who are listening right now might know about.

But Gukesh is the next generation. He’s 18. And we’ve been waiting for the next teenage superstar to break through. And he basically completed chess in a year. He won the Chess Olympiad with India. He was a dominant force for them on the first board. And he won the candidates tournament to qualify for the World Championship. And now he’s the World Champion. So talk about solving the game.

John Yang: You mentioned Magnus Carlsen, a former world champion. He won his World Championship, the first one in 2013, by defeating the only previous Indian world champion, Vishya Anand. It was in Chennai, which is Gukesh’s hometown. He was a spectator at that match and he said his dream of becoming world champion started then?

Gukesh Dommaraju, 2024 World Chess Champion: When Magnus won I thought, you know, I really want to be the one to bring back the title to India. And this has this dream that I had like more than 10 years ago has been the single most important thing in my life so far.

John Yang: What’s this going to do to chess not only India, but around the world?

Levy Rozman: It’s going to be massive. The first time that India had a world champion, it was their first ever Grandmaster, it was Vishy Anand. They didn’t have another one. And now I believe they have 100 and I believe they are creating two or three new ones, meaning those players are qualifying for the title every month. It’s hard to understate how crazy this is going to get India. It’s going to be a hero’s welcome of epic proportions.

All top cricketers, actors, musicians, politicians are going to congratulate Gukesh. He might have to stay inside for a little while. It’s going to get a little rowdy.

Listen, I’m so happy for him and I hope this spreads around the world, to be honest with you. When Ding became world champion, I hope there would be a similar boom in China. It wasn’t quite as strong. So India’s love for chess is unbelievable.

John Yang: Let’s talk a little bit more about Magnus Carlsen. He decided not to defend his title in 2023. He said he lacked motivation. He is not competing in the World Championship series. When Gukesh said he wanted to play Magnus, Magnus said, I’m not part of that circus anymore. He’s spending most of his time and energy on faster chess formats. Speed chess. What does that say about where chess is right now?

Levy Rozman: It doesn’t sound good to the average person. Right. We all have a sport we follow and that sport has a champion at the end of the year. But most of those sports, it’s then open. It’s not like the Kansas City Chiefs just wait for somebody to qualify to play against them. And chess has that format. We have that boxing system where we bring up a challenger to a champion.

It’s to be determined if that’s the best system. But Magnus Carlsen was clearly not interested, like he said in his own words, participating in that circus anymore. Can we have a reunification bout? Maybe. I would argue though that this is definitely not a great sign that the world champ is absent. I will summarize this by saying it doesn’t take anything away from Gukesh. He’s still the world champion.

John Yang: So now we’ve got an 18-year-old world champion. Speed chess is on the rise. As you look forward to the future. What excites you about the future of chess?

Levy Rozman: What excites me the most is right now we’ve got a lot of innovators, we’ve got people coming in trying to speed the game up. And the biggest problem that chess has is that it’s not a TV product in a sports form. I’m not saying we need 400 advertisements in the middle of the game and you miss a move. But what I am saying is we need to make it digestible and understandable for people at home.

And I’m willing to bet, John, that most people that listen to me right now will agree with this and go, I don’t follow chess on a day to day basis and sometimes I’m in a city where a big event is happening and people don’t know what’s happening, but they love chess. That’s our biggest problem. That’s what I’m most excited for us to tackle in the future.

John Yang: Levy Rozman on the future of chess. Thank you very much.

Levy Rozman: Thank you.