Bruce Springsteen on 'critical patriotism' and the power of protest music

Transcript

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Geoff Bennett: Tomorrow, the Bruce Springsteen Center for American Music opens to the public on the campus of New Jersey’s Monmouth University. The new facility houses Springsteen’s archives, while also telling the broader story of American music through artifacts and exhibits.

Ahead of the opening, I sat down with the Boss himself as part of our arts and culture series, Canvas.

What’s it feel like to see your whole life, like, reflected in museum form? It’s like…

Bruce Springsteen, Musician: Like you’re dead.

(Laughter)

Geoff Bennett: Far from it.

Just days after wrapping a 20-day stadium tour with the E Street Band, Bruce Springsteen and I sat down surrounded by the artifacts of a more-than-six-decade career, much of it devoted to telling the stories of working people.

We’re inside the new Bruce Springsteen Center for American Music, dedicated not just to one man’s career, but to the traditions that shaped it.

This building houses your archives, but it’s also dedicated to the broader story of American music. Why was that important to you?

Bruce Springsteen: I always looked at myself as a small link in a very big chain. I was a guy who kind of came along. You pick the flag up for a while. You run with it for a little while, and you hand it to the next guy. So we wanted to make the place very inclusive.

Geoff Bennett: The top floor houses Springsteen’s archives, which grew out of a fan-curated collection of memorabilia that eventually outgrew its home at the Asbury Park Public Library. The bottom floor includes a gallery of artifacts from across the history of American music.

Bob Santelli, Executive Director, Bruce Springsteen Center for American Music: This is where we tell the story of American music in a condensed form.

Geoff Bennett: Bob Santelli is the center’s executive director and an American music historian.

Bob Santelli: This is one of my favorite cases here, because of the power of the artifacts. That’s Louis Armstrong’s trumpet. That’s Dizzy Gillespie’s trumpet, John Coltrane’s saxophone, and Ella Fitzgerald’s concert dress.

We had to figure out how to encompass the story of American music in a rather small space, and yet make sure it was relevant, it was accurate, and reflective of what Bruce’s music is all about.

Geoff Bennett: Where does Bruce Springsteen’s contribution fit in that overall narrative?

Bob Santelli: His contributions are increasingly significant. His place is right up there with all the greats, including Bob Dylan. And so what we’re trying to do here is, it’s not a tribute to him. Most importantly, what we do is we try to uncover the creative process.

Geoff Bennett: In addition to memorabilia, the center offers an intimate look at Springsteen’s creative process through interactive exhibits, handwritten lyrics, and other rare materials from across his career.

Bob Santelli: He writes on $1.50 spiral bound notebooks that you can get in any drugstore.

Geoff Bennett: Handwritten lyrics to “Born in the USA,” that’s incredible.

Bob Santelli: Yes, and of course, fans see that as kind of Holy Grail stuff, you know?

Geoff Bennett: And there’s only one word that’s crossed out. It’s almost as if this was like downloaded and he just wrote it all out at once.

Bob Santelli: Exactly. Right.

Geoff Bennett: Where do you see yourself fitting in that longer narrative, that longer arc of American music?

Bruce Springsteen: You know, I’m just a guy that came along at this particular moment and was interested in writing about the times that I lived through, grew up in, my family’s life, how that connected to America in the second half of the 20th century.

And I wanted to be an artist to encompass their times, the times that they live in, and wrote about those things.

Geoff Bennett: For Springsteen, writing about his times has often meant examining the tension between America’s ideals and its reality.

From songs like “Youngstown,” a lament for the hollowing out of industrial America, to “American Skin (41 Shots),” his meditation on the 1999 police killing of Amadou Diallo, an unarmed immigrant in New York City.

He’s also been one of the country’s most politically engaged musicians, lending his voice to Democratic candidates for decades, performing at campaign rallies and get-out-the-vote events.

You said before that loving your country means telling the truth about it.

Bruce Springsteen: Sure.

Geoff Bennett: How has that guided your work?

Bruce Springsteen: Well, I believe in critical patriotism. I believe that’s the definition of a patriot, that you love your country so much that you are willing to look at it clearly, recognize its faults, encourage it to be a better place, and believe that you carry in your heart the country that is waiting.

Geoff Bennett: In recent years, the politics that long informed Springsteen’s work has become more explicit. In January, after federal immigration authorities in Minnesota killed two U.S. citizens, Renee Good and Alex Pretti, Springsteen responded with a song.

Bruce Springsteen: Their bravery, their sacrifice, and their names will not be forgotten.

(Cheering)

Bruce Springsteen: This is “Streets of Minneapolis.”

It was very angry. And usually I write songs that have a lot of political implications, but very often are not directly political.

(Singing)

Bruce Springsteen: So, in this case, I wrote a protest song. I thought, gee, maybe this is a little broad, but then I had my buddy Tom Morello, guitarist from Rage Against the Machine.

And he says: “No, no, no.” He says: “Bruce, nuance is great, but sometimes you got to kick them in the teeth.”

And so that was a moment when you had to kick him in the teeth.

(Singing)

Bruce Springsteen: It was a song written for a moment. I wrote it, recorded it, released it in three days. It’s the song of its times.

Jon Landau, Bruce Springsteen’s Manager: Bruce is a synthesizer.

Geoff Bennett: Jon Landau is Bruce Springsteen’s longtime manager.

Jon Landau: He hears everything. He reads everything. And he’s got some internal blender. And he creates out of found material original work.

Geoff Bennett: When Landau first encountered Springsteen in the ’70s, he was a music critic who famously wrote: “I saw rock ‘n’ roll future and its name is Bruce Springsteen.”

Today, the two are still collaborators, their creative and professional partnership among the longest running in modern music.

Jon Landau: The fact that the whole first floor is dedicated to setting a context for Bruce, which keeps this from becoming idolatry, and we’re telling, yes, Bruce’s story, but we’re telling it as part of a narrative about American music, which the concerts are intended to do.

Geoff Bennett: To celebrate the opening, organizers brought together more than a dozen artists for two nights of performances tracing the story of American music.

Ken Casey, Dropkick Murphys: Any time you get to share the stage with Bruce, if you get asked, you better be there.

Geoff Bennett: Ken Casey is the front man for Dropkick Murphys. He says he sees Springsteen as part of a long tradition of artists who have used music to engage with the world around them.

Ken Casey: You think about during the civil rights movement and the Vietnam War protests, like how — what a big role music played in those. And is music meeting the challenge now? I’m not 100 percent sure it is, or I’d like to see music do more.

Geoff Bennett: Do protest songs, do they serve a different purpose today? Do they carry the same power, the same weight?

Bruce Springsteen: I don’t know. I’m in the hearts and minds business. You change people kind of one at a time, and I believe that culture has impact. I believe that culture shapes the nation. Culture shapes our politics. So I have to — whether they do or not, I have to act as they do.

Geoff Bennett: You play for audiences across the political spectrum. People who love your music might not share your politics.

Bruce Springsteen: Right.

Geoff Bennett: How does that strike you?

Bruce Springsteen: That’s what I like.

(Laughter)

Bruce Springsteen: That’s fine. I like a big tent. If I’m playing up at the stadium here in Jersey, and there’s 50,000 people, I don’t think they’re all Democrats or they’re all progressives. So I like playing to a big tent.

Geoff Bennett: For all the reflection that comes with the opening of a career-spanning museum, Springsteen insists he’s far from finished.

You could have stopped a long time ago, and people would have said that was a complete career. Why keep going? What does it cost you, and what does it give you?

Bruce Springsteen: It’s just my job, and it’s my pleasure. I don’t even think about stopping. If you created a body of work that’s resonant, I don’t see any immediate reason to — there’s never going to be an E Street farewell tour, I can tell you that.

Geoff Bennett: And while the center bears his name, Bruce Springsteen hopes its focus broadens with time, placing his work within the larger continuum of American music.

Bruce Springsteen: I feel like I’m simply a link in a big chain, you know? And I would imagine, as time passes, all that’s up here will end up in a little case, along with a lot of other great, fabulous musicians.

(Laughter)

Geoff Bennett: You think so?

Bruce Springsteen: Sure.

Geoff Bennett: Generations from now, if people walk through here, they want — you want them to think that, oh, Bruce Springsteen was a link in a longer chain?

Bruce Springsteen: Yes.

Geoff Bennett: Really?

Bruce Springsteen: Yes.

Geoff Bennett: Well, I would say that and more.

(Laughter)

Bruce Springsteen: Thanks. I appreciate it.

Geoff Bennett: Bruce Springsteen, a real pleasure.

Bruce Springsteen: Thank you. My pleasure.

Geoff Bennett: Absolutely.