How author David Baldacci and his wife are working to counter toxic political discourse

Transcript

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William Brangham: David Baldacci has written more than 50 legal and suspense novels, including bestsellers like “Absolute Power” and “Wish You Well.” His latest is “Nash Falls.” It’s a story about a successful businessman who’s recruited by the FBI to expose a global crime network.

But Baldacci and his wife are now tackling a major real-world problem, how to combat toxic political discourse. Geoff Bennett sat down with them both recently.

Geoff Bennett: David and Michelle Baldacci, welcome to the “News Hour.”

David Baldacci, Civil Discourse and Collaboration Initiative: Thank you very much.

Michelle Baldacci, Civil Discourse and Collaboration Initiative: Thank you.

Geoff Bennett: When you started thinking seriously about how you wanted to be of service in this moment, what drew you to this idea, this civic discourse initiative?

David Baldacci: Well, we sort of looked around, I think, at the world and decided that this polarization trajectory is not sustainable.

And so many people now communicate and debate via social media, where there’s really very little accountability. We thought, if we could bring people face-to-face, you know who they are, getting rid of this anonymity, and people would just sit down and actually have discussions and conversations, that maybe it might work, and people could figure out, what I — sitting across the table from you, I think I agree with you on more things than I thought I would.

And I can see who you are. You’re another human being. You’re not — you could be a chatbot from Russia, for all you know if you’re online. We just thought we wanted to make it simple, but have these venues and platforms and opportunities for people to come together.

Geoff Bennett: And how do you do it? How do you get people to engage face-to-face?

Michelle Baldacci: Well, that’s going to be an ongoing project. We’re going to have to figure that out and set up the platforms and the venues and make it work for as many people as possible.

Geoff Bennett: And it’s at VCU. It’s in Virginia, lifelong Virginia resident.

David Baldacci: Yes.

Geoff Bennett: You earned your degree in political science at Virginia Commonwealth?

David Baldacci: Yes.

And we thought we needed resources. We needed manpower. We needed expertise. So VCU has a statewide footprint, as does the Library of Virginia. You know, Library of Virginia sort of has the paper, the materials, the resources, the history, the facts, the knowledge.

And to take that and take it across the commonwealth, it’s sort of — I tell people exercise to keep yourself healthy. Well, as a citizen of the democracy, you have to exercise your citizenship muscles or else it atrophies and it goes away. And you can’t wait every four years the day before to figure out who you’re going to vote for.

You need to be engaged throughout the entire process. I know people are busy, but this is really important. This stuff really matters. So we were thinking — and we will give you an example — of a town hall with no politicians, just people coming in, in the area. We want to go where they are. We don’t want people to have to come to Richmond for everything.

We want people to go where they are in these communities, in lots of different venues, and just have opportunities where it could be moderated. We could have speakers come in that have debates and conversations and dialogue afterwards. So it can take 100 different sort of facets and elements of what this might be, but it’s about bringing people together to speak peacefully, rationally, respectfully with other people.

This is not about getting out there and hurling vitriol. We have had enough of that. This is about facing problems, compromising, coming to agreement and then moving forward as a country.

Geoff Bennett: And how do you plan to measure success for an initiative like this?

Michelle Baldacci: Oh, that’s a really good question.

The goal is to make this fun, as well as educational. So, hopefully, we will be able to reach out. And it’ll depend on how many people attend and how many people seem interested, how many people we can get into the venues and the platforms.

Geoff Bennett: It’s interesting to hear you say the goal is to make it feel fun, because my view of things is that something being fun doesn’t dilute the mission. It really just amplifies it.

David Baldacci: Yes.

Michelle Baldacci: Well…

Geoff Bennett: You see it that way?

Michelle Baldacci: … “Hamilton” and “SchoolHouse Rock!” are fun examples.

(Laughter)

Geoff Bennett: As someone with a lifelong view of literacy efforts, what surprising lessons have you learned about how people engage with reading and dialogue today?

David Baldacci: Well, I think that very few people read books consistently anymore, unfortunately, and that number continues to go down. I mean, social media and everything else, it’s — and being in the book world, I get all the statistics and facts, where social media is actually decreasing people’s power to be able to read a novel-length form of fiction.

So now, instead of in college teaching novels, they are teaching excerpts of novels, because kids’ attention spans have atrophied so much.

Geoff Bennett: Really?

David Baldacci: Not just kids, adults as well. If you spend eight, nine hours on your phone every day, trust me, you’re going to have a really difficult time reading an entire book, because your mind and your brain and your synapses reformulate.

And so all of a sudden you’re like, I can’t go more than seven minutes on a focus because that’s what my brain has now adapted to. So my hope is that this will get people more engaged. I want people to both read a lot more because, part of being a citizen is, you have to read. You have to understand the facts.

I always point to, there’s a 47-page book that was written in this country hundreds of years ago by a former Englishman named Thomas Pain called “Common Sense.” Back then, half the people in this country couldn’t even read. I would guarantee you that every American knew every word in that book. Why? Because it mattered to them. This is as they were seeking their independence.

I think that we can’t take democracy for granted. I think, every day, we need to think, if we’re not working towards maintaining our democracy one day, it could go away.

Geoff Bennett: Say more about that, this idea that literacy isn’t just an educational issue. It’s a small-D democratic issue.

Michelle Baldacci: Right.

It’s difficult to get people engaged in things that they don’t think about every day. Because we’re from Virginia outside D.C., we’re kind of exposed to it all the time, whereas the rest of the country really isn’t. So they don’t feel like it’s something they need to engage with every day, maybe every two years, maybe every four years, when there’s an election.

And they don’t also understand the importance of local politics and how that affects them. And I think the other issue with people not reading books is, because of tweets and everything’s gotten shortened, you have to give it in small doses.

Geoff Bennett: And, obviously, you write these thrilling fictional worlds filled with conflict. How has that practice of crafting narratives shaped your thinking about how to deal with real-world conflict and resolution?

David Baldacci: I have found that anything is possible. My books are bound by plausibility. I can write about anything. Anything is plausible these days.

And so until Gutenberg invented his little printing press, we lived in the Dark Ages. And books brought us into the Enlightenment. And if we stop reading books, there’s only one place for us to go, and that’s back there. Books really are at the center of what makes us human beings. We’re the only species that can actually read.

And this is how you build intelligence. All these data centers are going up around the world. So all the tech bros have decided, you know how to make superintelligence? We’re going to feed every book ever written into them. That should tell all of us how important books are to build superintelligence, because actually we are the superintelligent ones.

So if you think the tech bros are geniuses, you should be reading a book every single day of your life.

Geoff Bennett: Well, I have had your latest book here on the desk throughout our entire conversation, because I do intend to ask you a question about it. It’s not just here as a set piece.

(Laughter)

Geoff Bennett: But most of your longtime readers know you for your fast-paced, plot-driven thrillers.

This book, “Nash Falls”, feels especially introspective. Is that a shift for you? Was it intentional?

David Baldacci: The older you get…

(Laughter)

David Baldacci: … the more you reflect back on the past.

And I thought so. What I do with “Nash Falls,” Walter Nash is a — he’s done everything he’s supposed to do. He got a good education. He has worked really hard for decades, and he has reached the American dream. And then all of a sudden, nothing he can control, somebody came and took it away from him.

And I — on the book tour, I told people, I feel like it’s thematic these days, where you have done everything you’re supposed to do, everybody told you were supposed to do, and you achieved your goals, and then it’s gone. And then you have to pick yourself back up again and move forward. And how do you do that?

So, me, just as a observer of the world, I took that story on because I’m going to make Walter Nash feel like an everyday American. And this is what happened, and where do you go from there? Because I think a lot of people are asking themselves, where do I go from here?

Geoff Bennett: David and Michelle Baldacci, a real pleasure to speak with you both. Thanks for being here.

David Baldacci: Thank you.

Michelle Baldacci: Thank you.