Ben Folds on taking a stand for artistic freedom after Trump's Kennedy Center takeover

Transcript

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Amna Nawaz: Ben Folds’ piano-powered pop music has earned him a cult following and made him one of the most respected songwriters of his generation.

For the better part of the last decade, he held an influential role in classical music too, artistic adviser to the National Symphony Orchestra. But, in February, he resigned after President Trump’s controversial takeover of the Kennedy Center. Now he’s speaking out about that chapter while touring for a holiday album and more.

I talked to him for our series Art in Action, exploring the intersection of art and democracy as part of our Canvas coverage.

Thirty years ago this summer, Ben Fold and his band Ben Folds Five released their self-titled debut album. Full of off-kilter piano pop, it was an unexpected success. And it thrust the trio — the name Ben Folds Five was an inside joke — into the upper echelons of indy rock.

In the years since, Folds found success in new lanes, writing hits for animated movies.

Ben Folds, Musician: I thought it was very uplifting.

Amna Nawaz: Even serving as a judge on the a cappella musical competition “The Sing-Off.”

Ben Folds: Let’s try…

Amna Nawaz: In 2017, another path opened, when Folds was named artistic adviser to the National Symphony Orchestra.

Ben Folds: Let’s hear it all together and make sure it’s not crazy. Two, three, four.

Amna Nawaz: For eight years, he curated collaborations between some of the biggest names in pop and the classical musicians who called the Kennedy Center home. But, in February, he resigned after President Trump announced a controversial overhaul of the storied institution.

Donald Trump, President of the United States: We ended the woke political programming and we’re restoring the Kennedy Center as the premier venue for performing arts anywhere in the country, anywhere in the world.

Amna Nawaz: You were in a role there as artistic adviser. Just tell us why you felt you couldn’t continue on in that role.

Ben Folds: Well, the Kennedy Center is for the people. It’s not for political gain, but it became partisan. And so that’s why I quit, because, if I’m there, I’m a public figure of some kind, these — that is complicit support. I’m a pawn.

Amna Nawaz: Soon after taking office, Trump replaced 18 members of the bipartisan board with allies, who then elected him chairman and fired former president Deborah Rutter.

“Not for me,” Folds said on Instagram, announcing his departure from something he once called the ultimate gig. He wasn’t alone. In the weeks that followed, the producers of “Hamilton” canceled their Kennedy Center shows. And artists like Issa Rae pulled out of their performances.

Others, like the Gay Men’s Chorus Of Washington, D.C., said their shows were scrapped by the center itself.

Donald Trump: The Kennedy Center Honors have been among the most prestigious.

Amna Nawaz: But Richard Grenell, the center’s new interim president, says previous programming, some of which he’s called woke propaganda, was unprofitable, partisan, and wasn’t connecting with audiences. He spoke with Newsmax in September.

Richard Grenell, Interim President, Kennedy Center: I think people need to understand that arts institutions across the country, including Broadway, are losing money. They’re in terrible financial shape. And I think largely it’s because you’re not appealing to the masses on programming.

Amna Nawaz: That’s the argument they’re putting out there, that the Kennedy Center programming…

Ben Folds: It’s not an argument. It’s a lie.

Amna Nawaz: … didn’t speak to a number of Americans.

Ben Folds: Yes. Nothing you have on stage is going to speak to everybody. But there are thousands of shows there. And it was everything. We put everything on stage.

I think you should be able to go to a place like the Kennedy Center sponsored by we the people, and you should be able to see yourself on stage. There are people who grow up not seeing someone who looks like them conducting, not seeing someone that looks like them dancing or speaking or being admired, is something we can do something about.

And so to the degree that the Kennedy Center was a diverse place that reflected the diversity of America the best it could, awesome.

Amna Nawaz: So why does the Kennedy Center matter? Folds looks to history.

Ben Folds: I’m not exactly sure, but I think it has to do with power. It’s safe to say that any authoritarian movement likes to take arts and culture or control it or stymie it in some way, throttle it, use it early on, because that’s where message comes from.

Amna Nawaz: But before his departure, a swan song, recording a live album with the National Symphony Orchestra, or NSO, before a full house.

Ben Folds: I thought, I’m going to need to do this, because I wanted the NSO to be making albums.

Amna Nawaz: Yes.

Ben Folds: They have made a few notable classical albums over the last few decades, but not that much. For the National Symphony Orchestra, I felt they should be littering the streets with records.

Amna Nawaz: The performance just days before the 2024 election captured the mood of the moment and the anxiety over what lay ahead.

Ben Folds: I was thinking more of the moment. Like, the first song on the record is a song called, “But Wait, There’s More.” And I wrote it maybe 2021 about how things just kept getting weirder and weirder and weirder and we were becoming — we all knew we were becoming desensitized and all of this becoming normal, and — but also addictive.

Amna Nawaz: The album has become a statement of purpose from an artist unafraid to speak his mind.

What do you think is the role of artists, of performers, of creators, of people who have platforms like yours at this moment in American history?

Ben Folds: Well, the main role is to be expressive and be honest. That’s the main role of the artist. I loved doing that work. I was sad to leave.

Amna Nawaz: Yes.

Ben Folds: I’d like to see the NSO not sort of held hostage into place, but they won that one and they have got it. So those like me are probably taking this stuff out to other places, out to the private sector, and trying to continue to help the arts out there.

The Kennedy Center isn’t the only game in town. I will be glad to see it come back to its shining beacon on the hill.

Amna Nawaz: A final performance for now, but certainly not the last word.